SATURDAY, MAY 30, 2009
The Problem with Shaadi.com
Arranged marriages are common among Indians. I'm not going to go into the merits and demerits of it; that's not what this post is about. What I want to address is the problem with sites like shaadi.com that supposedly make it easier for Indian people to arrange these marriages. Now don't get me wrong. There are many people who have met their soul-mates through shaadi.com (and similar sites). My sister met her husband through that. But the problem with these sites is that they are not geared towards the individual. Before I elaborate, we need to talk about what arranged marriages are, and why they are arranged.
Indian people (which includes Indian-Americans and Non-resident Indians and most first and second-generation Indians) identify themselves through four different attributes. The first is the fact that they are Indian, then there is religion, then there is caste, and finally there is family. In India, a marriage is not simply a marriage. It's much more than that. It is an alliance. Indeed, you only need to go through profiles on shaadi.com to see profiles that start with "Inviting alliances from parents of good [religion], [caste] families". More than being a relationship between two people, an Indian (arranged) marriage is a relationship between two families. This is because there needs to be a proper match between those attributes that I talked about (mainly the last three). It's very uncommon in India (and for most Indian people) to marry outside their religion or caste. It is the exception, rather than the norm. Finally, a family prefers to be matched up against a similar family (there are a host of other attributes that are too many, and too complicated to go into). Now (if you're not Indian) you might be wondering why this is so. What does this have to do with the likes and dislikes of two individuals? If you asked that question, then you already have your answer. In an arranged marriage, the likes and dislikes of the individual is not paramount. It is simply another thing to consider amongst a host of other concerns. This seems very strange when you look at from a non-Indian (or Western) perspective. Marriage in the United States and most Western countries is simply between two individuals. They're the ones who live their lives together. Although their families play a part, it is not a major one, and definitely not as big as part as the one played by Indian families. Family bonds in India are very strong. This is why the parents of a boy or a girl are so hugely concerned about the family of their prospective daughter or son-in-law. Everybody needs to get along together.
Earlier I pointed out that the needs of the individual do not come first. This is not such a big deal for people from my parents' generation. Joint families were common in India even fifty years ago. However, people of my generation have grown up in nuclear families. While we still maintain our family ties and bonds, and while they are very strong, our view of the world is a little different. For us, our individual likes and needs are very important. I do not mean that we are selfish. It's just that for us, priorities are a little different. We want our prospective mate to be someone we consider attractive, and whose personality that we like. Their family details are important, but not as much to a degree as their personal details. For parents, family background, religion, and caste are the most important. Though they do want their future daughter or son-in-law to be someone that their child likes, the family details are what comes first. This is the disconnect between Indian parents and their children, when it comes to searching for a boy or a girl to marry. This is also the disconnect between sites like shaadi.com and their users.
Matrimonial sites tout the ease with which one can find their soul-mate. They highlight the numerous success stories and the large number of profiles that are visible. All of this is true. There are many people who have found their soul-mates and there are a large number of profiles. But the problem inherent to all these sites is that they are not built for individuals. These sites are exclusively geared towards families (of boys and girls) looking to connect with families (of boys and girls). Yes, you can make a profile that makes it look like it comes from you, personally, but these profiles will have a hard time attracting attention. In fact, I had a huge argument with my parents when they put up my profile. I wanted to list it as coming from myself, while they wanted to list it as coming from the parents. I couldn't understand their reasoning. I was the one looking for someone, therefore the profile had to come from me. Apparently not. It's more "respectable" for it to come from a family, and it is the family that initiates the alliance. So there it is once again: the individual vs. the family. There are many other reasons why the site simply doesn't work for people like me. Take the issue of photographs. India is a very conservative country, and families are extremely reluctant to put pictures of their daughters on a website. Couple that with the general ignorance regarding the working of the internet (they probably think anyone, anywhere on the internet can see pictures of their precious little princess), and you have a recipe for extreme paranoia. Therefore you will see a lot of profiles that simply don't have any pictures, or where you have to request pictures, or where pictures are protected. Before I am accused of being too superficial, I think people are naïve if they think that looks don't play a part. Perhaps there are people who don't really care, and I salute you. But I will admit that I am not one of them; I need to find someone physically attractive. Anyway, that's another argument. The other major issue is the issue of horoscopes. Indian families are usually very religious and can also be superstitious. Horoscopes play a huge part in the lives of many Indians; from starting on a journey, or looking for a job, all the way to getting married. Horoscopes are related to the Zodiac. I don't want to go into the specific details, but it's based on the theory that the arrangement of stars and planets at one's birth has a significant influence on their life. So when you are looking for a spouse, you need to make sure that the "horoscopes match". In many profiles you will see the following comment "Horoscope match is a must". Some families won't even consider your profile if your horoscope doesn't match with their child's horoscope. Being somewhat of a skeptic and also not being a fan of a deterministic future I find the whole thing funny, stupid, annoying, and bizarre at the same time. To be fair, not all Indian families think that horoscopes are important (my family doesn't), but a lot of them do.
In addition to the two main points I brought up above, there are other little ones. Each profile has a host of different attributes about the family. Such as financial status (Lower-middle class, middle-class, rich, very rich, I've got my own fucking jet fool!), family values (conservative, moderately conservative, liberal, very liberal) and bunch of other stuff. Oh, yes, and as far as Nairs (the caste that I belong to) are concerned, some people also write what tharavad (ancestral homestead/family) they're from. So the emerging pictures is this, and I reiterate: shaadi.com is not for a person looking for a another person. It's for a family, looking for another family; it's a problem for me, and I'm willing to wager that it's a problem for a lot of people like me (as far as how we were brought up, i.e., outside India).
Although I find the whole situation ridiculous and frustrating, I don't think there is a difference between what I want, and what my parents want. We both want the same thing: a good girl, with a stable family, who can be a part of our family. The difference is how we want to go about it, and the compromises we are willing to make. I know that it is unreasonable to expect to meet someone who is perfect in every way, but we want someone that is at least reasonably close. For my parents, the family is most important, and so they think it's alright to compromise a little bit as far as the girl is concerned (You don't like the way she looks? Looks aren't everything you know!). But for me, it's the girl first and the family second. I don't see this situation changing any time soon (for me, or for the many others in my situation). I'm hopeful that eventually I'll find someone who I'm happy with and who my family is happy with. Although I will say this: going through what I'm going now, I'm pretty sure that I don't want my children dealing with the same thing. So maybe, hopefully, things will be different within the next twenty to thirty years...
Indian people (which includes Indian-Americans and Non-resident Indians and most first and second-generation Indians) identify themselves through four different attributes. The first is the fact that they are Indian, then there is religion, then there is caste, and finally there is family. In India, a marriage is not simply a marriage. It's much more than that. It is an alliance. Indeed, you only need to go through profiles on shaadi.com to see profiles that start with "Inviting alliances from parents of good [religion], [caste] families". More than being a relationship between two people, an Indian (arranged) marriage is a relationship between two families. This is because there needs to be a proper match between those attributes that I talked about (mainly the last three). It's very uncommon in India (and for most Indian people) to marry outside their religion or caste. It is the exception, rather than the norm. Finally, a family prefers to be matched up against a similar family (there are a host of other attributes that are too many, and too complicated to go into). Now (if you're not Indian) you might be wondering why this is so. What does this have to do with the likes and dislikes of two individuals? If you asked that question, then you already have your answer. In an arranged marriage, the likes and dislikes of the individual is not paramount. It is simply another thing to consider amongst a host of other concerns. This seems very strange when you look at from a non-Indian (or Western) perspective. Marriage in the United States and most Western countries is simply between two individuals. They're the ones who live their lives together. Although their families play a part, it is not a major one, and definitely not as big as part as the one played by Indian families. Family bonds in India are very strong. This is why the parents of a boy or a girl are so hugely concerned about the family of their prospective daughter or son-in-law. Everybody needs to get along together.
Earlier I pointed out that the needs of the individual do not come first. This is not such a big deal for people from my parents' generation. Joint families were common in India even fifty years ago. However, people of my generation have grown up in nuclear families. While we still maintain our family ties and bonds, and while they are very strong, our view of the world is a little different. For us, our individual likes and needs are very important. I do not mean that we are selfish. It's just that for us, priorities are a little different. We want our prospective mate to be someone we consider attractive, and whose personality that we like. Their family details are important, but not as much to a degree as their personal details. For parents, family background, religion, and caste are the most important. Though they do want their future daughter or son-in-law to be someone that their child likes, the family details are what comes first. This is the disconnect between Indian parents and their children, when it comes to searching for a boy or a girl to marry. This is also the disconnect between sites like shaadi.com and their users.
Matrimonial sites tout the ease with which one can find their soul-mate. They highlight the numerous success stories and the large number of profiles that are visible. All of this is true. There are many people who have found their soul-mates and there are a large number of profiles. But the problem inherent to all these sites is that they are not built for individuals. These sites are exclusively geared towards families (of boys and girls) looking to connect with families (of boys and girls). Yes, you can make a profile that makes it look like it comes from you, personally, but these profiles will have a hard time attracting attention. In fact, I had a huge argument with my parents when they put up my profile. I wanted to list it as coming from myself, while they wanted to list it as coming from the parents. I couldn't understand their reasoning. I was the one looking for someone, therefore the profile had to come from me. Apparently not. It's more "respectable" for it to come from a family, and it is the family that initiates the alliance. So there it is once again: the individual vs. the family. There are many other reasons why the site simply doesn't work for people like me. Take the issue of photographs. India is a very conservative country, and families are extremely reluctant to put pictures of their daughters on a website. Couple that with the general ignorance regarding the working of the internet (they probably think anyone, anywhere on the internet can see pictures of their precious little princess), and you have a recipe for extreme paranoia. Therefore you will see a lot of profiles that simply don't have any pictures, or where you have to request pictures, or where pictures are protected. Before I am accused of being too superficial, I think people are naïve if they think that looks don't play a part. Perhaps there are people who don't really care, and I salute you. But I will admit that I am not one of them; I need to find someone physically attractive. Anyway, that's another argument. The other major issue is the issue of horoscopes. Indian families are usually very religious and can also be superstitious. Horoscopes play a huge part in the lives of many Indians; from starting on a journey, or looking for a job, all the way to getting married. Horoscopes are related to the Zodiac. I don't want to go into the specific details, but it's based on the theory that the arrangement of stars and planets at one's birth has a significant influence on their life. So when you are looking for a spouse, you need to make sure that the "horoscopes match". In many profiles you will see the following comment "Horoscope match is a must". Some families won't even consider your profile if your horoscope doesn't match with their child's horoscope. Being somewhat of a skeptic and also not being a fan of a deterministic future I find the whole thing funny, stupid, annoying, and bizarre at the same time. To be fair, not all Indian families think that horoscopes are important (my family doesn't), but a lot of them do.
In addition to the two main points I brought up above, there are other little ones. Each profile has a host of different attributes about the family. Such as financial status (Lower-middle class, middle-class, rich, very rich, I've got my own fucking jet fool!), family values (conservative, moderately conservative, liberal, very liberal) and bunch of other stuff. Oh, yes, and as far as Nairs (the caste that I belong to) are concerned, some people also write what tharavad (ancestral homestead/family) they're from. So the emerging pictures is this, and I reiterate: shaadi.com is not for a person looking for a another person. It's for a family, looking for another family; it's a problem for me, and I'm willing to wager that it's a problem for a lot of people like me (as far as how we were brought up, i.e., outside India).
Although I find the whole situation ridiculous and frustrating, I don't think there is a difference between what I want, and what my parents want. We both want the same thing: a good girl, with a stable family, who can be a part of our family. The difference is how we want to go about it, and the compromises we are willing to make. I know that it is unreasonable to expect to meet someone who is perfect in every way, but we want someone that is at least reasonably close. For my parents, the family is most important, and so they think it's alright to compromise a little bit as far as the girl is concerned (You don't like the way she looks? Looks aren't everything you know!). But for me, it's the girl first and the family second. I don't see this situation changing any time soon (for me, or for the many others in my situation). I'm hopeful that eventually I'll find someone who I'm happy with and who my family is happy with. Although I will say this: going through what I'm going now, I'm pretty sure that I don't want my children dealing with the same thing. So maybe, hopefully, things will be different within the next twenty to thirty years...
13 comments:
All images and text on this site: Copyright © Vivin Suresh Paliath. All Rights Reserved.
On saturday, may 30, 2009 at 4:28 PM UTC, Saroj said:
*applause*
Which is why we need a NEW website. *hint* *hint*
On saturday, may 30, 2009 at 4:52 PM UTC, Nicole said:
I think arranged marriages are very similar. Going into an arranged marriage (at least, what I've seen from friends) means knowing that it won't be perfect, but that you do what you have to to make it work and choose to be happy. You do it for your family as well as for yourself. In a Western, individual-centered relationship, it is expected that you search until you find the perfect someone who is your soul mate, yadda yadda. When your relationship isn't perfect, you are disappointed and quite possibly give up to keep searching. But no one is perfect. I appreciate the Indian approach of being content and making happiness out of the life you end up with. This perspective could help Westerners a lot in our self-centered search for a person to make us happy. :)
On saturday, may 30, 2009 at 5:02 PM UTC, vivin said:
Haha, thanks :) Yes... new website... as soon as I get off my lazy ass!
@Nicole,
That's a very good observation. I believe "arranged marriages" or something similar were the norm during the Victorian era in England and perhaps in other European nations as well. It's only recently in the Western world that the needs of the individual have to some extent been given greater importance than the needs of the community. I admit, I may been a little harsh and one-sided in my analysis. I do realize that in Indian marriages it's not just you looking for someone, your whole family is out there, looking for you. While that kind of support is helpful and is appreciated, it can also be stifling. I guess (as with anything) the issue is striking a proper balance between individual needs and priorities and the needs of the family/community.
On monday, june 01, 2009 at 3:34 AM UTC, Shaadi.com said:
Thank you for your feedback. We are in process of evaluating the same. Stay connected mate.
Warm Regards,
The Shaadi Team.
On monday, june 01, 2009 at 9:38 AM UTC, vivin said:
I don't blame you guys for designing your site the way you have; my issue was a societal one. It was mainly directed at Indian society as a whole. It's only logical that you should design your site in a manner that caters to a majority of your users (those mainly being parents/families), and so I don't hold you at fault. I think you guys have done a great job making it easy for those people to find who they want. But thanks for trying to address my concerns!
Vivin
On monday, june 01, 2009 at 10:49 PM UTC, Shaadi.com said:
Regards,
Shaadi.com team
On monday, june 08, 2009 at 3:20 AM UTC, Dilip Muralidaran said:
On monday, june 08, 2009 at 8:02 PM UTC, Aniruddha Barapatre said:
On monday, june 08, 2009 at 8:27 PM UTC, vivin said:
Glad to know there are people out there who feel similarly :)
@Aniruddha,
Thanks! Yeah, I hope that things change in the future... maybe our children's lives will be a little bit easier :)
On tuesday, june 09, 2009 at 11:10 PM UTC, Hema said:
On wednesday, june 10, 2009 at 9:17 AM UTC, vivin said:
Thank you for your comments. My intent wasn't to demonize Indian society; I'm sorry if you felt that way. I agree that every culture is different and has its own history but that is not a reason to not evaluate or critique (a culture). I'm not slandering (in this case, you should accuse me of libel :). Slander is spoken) what Indians do; I'm just presenting my feelings in a certain frame of context, that being the individual vs. the family.
I don't claim that western society is "a fountain of justice". Western society has its own shortcomings, but you also have to realize that the ideas of individual liberty and freedom are very much entrenched in western culture (especially in the United states). This is in stark contrast to Asian culture which places the emphasis on the well-being of a cultural or social group above the individual. In the words of Mr. Spock from Star Trek, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." Both modes of thought have their merits and shortcomings, and as with anything in life, the answer lies in striking a balance between them both.
I agree that horoscopes can give some people peace of mind. It is not necessarily something I agree with, because I don't like the idea that things have already been decided for me, or that my destiny/future has already been written. Furthermore, because of my propensity to look at things with a skeptical and scientific eye, I find the notion of horoscopes untenable. Then again, I understand that it is a matter of faith, so to each his own.
I'm afraid that I cannot agree with you regarding dowry. It is a ridiculous, discriminatory, and outmoded practice. I simply cannot see how you can justify the custom. If you're saying that dowry gives parents peace of mind, then what you're essentially saying is that there is a price on "peace of mind". The idea of money changing hands during marriage, cheapens and sullies the very essence of the ceremony (in my opinion).
It is not western society that asks us to oppose certain aspects of Indian society (if you're talking about dowry). Indian society and culture is ancient, rich and vibrant, but it is not without its faults. A culture cannot progress if its members do not constantly challenge and re-examine its attributes, and will become stagnant and irrelevant in a changing and progressive world.
Once again, I apologize if I gave you the wrong idea. I wasn't trying to bring down Indian culture, I was simply trying to point out the clash in points of view of people like me (those who grew up outside India) and those of our parents.
On thursday, june 11, 2009 at 4:40 AM UTC, rehab chougle said:
I am surprised that in this day and age, you are looking at a web venture for a decision that could last a lifetime. There are many marriages where people are leading desperate compromises.Please dont turn yours into one. Good luck in finding the missus. :)
[I know you from spelling circles in Oman and have heard abt you from ISG friends.
Following you on Twitter (rehabc)]
On thursday, june 11, 2009 at 8:59 AM UTC, vivin said:
I don't think arranged marriages are silly... and it also depends on what you mean by "arranged marriage". If you mean the one where the parents set everything up and the children have no say, then yes, I would agree that it is silly. But if it's two people who meet up (in real life, or over the Internet) and then decide to get married, then I wouldn't really it "arranged".
I don't think there's anything wrong in searching for someone over the Internet, especially if your intent is a long-term commitment. This is the way I see it: I'd like my children, at the very least, know how to speak their native language and be aware of their culture and tradition. I think it would be easier to do that if my wife is from a similar background as mine. It's easier to search through and meet a large number of potential "missuses" through the web than in real life. I wouldn't call it a desperate measure either. I know it's an important decision that can last a life-time and so I don't take it lightly. I put a lot of thought into it. As far as compromises go, I think you have to be willing to make at least some. If you're too rigid, you're not going to get anywhere. That being said, I don't think anyone should just "settle" either.
Thanks for the good-luck wishes :)